141: SLP Live: Reframing Behavior Management into Self-Regulation Teaching

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Venita Litvack: Hi, everyone. I am so excited about this topic. It is called reframing behavior management with self-regulation teaching and it is with my good friend, Danielle Kent. She's actually been on the podcast before. A couple of times, I think. And I just love everything that she talks about. Especially as a new mom, she is really big on co-regulation and it's really just made me rethink how I approach parenting as well.

But all of the strategies. Definitely be used with our clients too. So I think that this will be an extremely informative and engaging topic. And I can't wait to hear more about it. And if you're not familiar with me really quick, I have a passion for AAC, assisted technology and literacy. I have been able to deliver poster presentations related to AAC at Asda.

I coauthor the Luna's, what to do book [00:01:00] series. I'm the host of the CT side out podcast. Newish mom to a 14 month old daughter. And I have Danielle here. Danielle, I'll let you go ahead and introduce yourself. Sounds 

[00:01:10] Danielle Kent: great. I run an operate peace of mind therapy and consulting, LLC, a speech pathology based business and some troll Vermont.

I'm also the host of the brainy SLP podcast and the aligned professional podcast. I really focus on student specific contracts in the state of. Uh, supporting school teams to understand how to support their learners with neurodiversity affirming communication supports as well as I really also enjoy providing workshops around co-regulation self-regulation and executive function skills.

I love to work out. I'm a mom of two, and I also have two Golden's. Now I have a Harley and Maisie, so I'm a dog, mom and a human mom of two. I feel very lucky for all of that. And I have a wonderful. 

[00:01:51] Venita Litvack: Ah, yeah. And his name was Adam too. Right? 

[00:01:54] Danielle Kent: So that's right.

[00:01:58] Venita Litvack: Awesome. So [00:02:00] here's our agenda. Today. We will start with introductions and backgrounds. Then we will go into a description of the traditional approaches used to respond to behaviors. Then we'll talk about co-regulation approaches and how co-regulation is connected to self-regulation. Then we'll get into a description of the differences between behaviors versus dysregulation, and we'll wrap up with a live.

Danielle, I'll let you share your financial disclosures. First 

[00:02:31] Danielle Kent: sounds great. Those disclosures are owning and operating peace of mind therapy and consulting. Also being the host of the podcasts, um, the brainy SLP and the aligned professional. I also wrote the book max learns to pause. Um, and I think I also have the aligned professional YouTube channel as well.

No, non-financial relationships to disclose. 

[00:02:51] Venita Litvack: Great. And then I have the following relevant financial relationships to disclose. I have ownership interest in CG situp [00:03:00] LLC and tassel learning, LLC. And I receive royalties from the Lunas, what to do book series. And then I am also a member of ashes, special interest group 12.

So our hope is by the end of this pod course, that you'll be able to identify two traditional approaches used in therapy to respond to behaviors. You'll be able to identify three co-regulation approaches and describe the connection between co-regulation and self-regulation. And finally, identify two differences between behaviors and dysregulation.

Where are you Danielle? I am so excited to dive in. Let's talk about some traditional approaches that SLPs might already be using in therapy to respond to behaviors. 

[00:03:47] Danielle Kent: And I, I think this is a great slide to start out with because you know, when I was in grad school and I'm sure, similarly, when you were in grad school, the same approaches were kind of recommended to.

Uh, in terms of how we respond to [00:04:00] what was always for me called behaviors before I had kids, uh, in particular before I had my second child. Um, and I put first then up top, most importantly, because this has been receiving a lot of attention in our field. And first then the way I talk about it on this slide is in reference to first you work and then you get something you enjoy, so we're going to work and then you do something you enjoy.

So first you do this activity with me, and then you can play with the train. Um, as kind of a way of keeping kids on track in sessions with their behavior ABCs, antecedent behavior consequence, um, it's a traditional approach looking at, trying back up and figuring out what is the cause of a behavior. Um, Have been told a lot to use planned ignoring and withholding and response to behaviors.

So when the presence and I'm intentionally, I pretty much always use dysregulation now instead of the language of behaviors, but I'm intentionally using the word behaviors on this slide, because I know that's how SLPs in their [00:05:00] training and even in their earliest years get the message of dysregulation as a behavior.

So I got a lot of messages to ignore behaviors or withhold, um, attention, support, engagement around behaviors, like, oh, just look away. Oh, do this. So withholding my, uh, attention and attachment based responses. Um, other methods are reinforcement and punishment systems. Um, remember if we go to the, the behavior base of those it's adding or removing a stimuli, the most common ones we use a no of or token systems and, um, other structured programs, um, that rely on metacognitive skills.

I'm sure he also know of programs that are talking about, um, what feelings you're having and just kind of labeling those feelings in response to. Uh, behavior and, um, I will say. SLPs who are watching. This are professionals who are watching this [00:06:00] and this whole presentation of it gets you thinking. And you're like, oh, I, I I've used some of these approaches first and foremost.

I never want to cause people to feel shame or bad. I always want to show people there's another option. There's another option. And most of the time when I talk to professionals, they're eager to learn more. And a lot of professionals in our field especially are really eager to learn more about.

Neuro-diversity affirming intervention. And first then methods. We know, you know, first you do this work with me, and then I'm going to give you something you like, we know that's not the best way we know that incorporating special interests into the work we do. We know that weaving play-based intervention, the work we do is so important and so helpful.

Um, but if you're curious and you want to know more, the book punished by rewards is a great book to read about how a lot of the. Tools and tips and techniques that we may have been using. Don't ultimately lead to intrinsic [00:07:00] motivation, which is, you know, we want our kids to become the drivers of their own ships.

We want them to be able to manage their bodies, manage themselves. And a lot of the things we're using with external or extrinsic motivators, Don't have that impact. Um, and so that's why co-regulation for me. And what we'll talk about today is a more meaningful way to go about the work we do. 

[00:07:23] Venita Litvack: Yeah, I agree.

And I think that. All of these strategies, even though SLPs like may have used in the past. I think a lot of them are still actually being used today as well. And I really don't know that outside of like social media or maybe some Facebook groups, maybe some email threads that this information is being shared about the alternatives.

So I think it would be helpful to talk briefly about like, why first then. Is getting so much attention just so people can [00:08:00] understand the perspective if they haven't necessarily seen any information on 

[00:08:04] Danielle Kent: it. Yeah, totally. And I want to make sure I, again say there there's a lot of benefit if you're using first then as a visual schedule.

So first we have reading then's math, kind of like a now next type of board. When I use, when I'm talking about first, then it's like, first you're going to do my work and then you're going to get what you want as a reinforcer. And that really is an extra, and there's a couple of reasons. It's not a method that leads to intrinsic motivation, which is what we want for our kids.

We want them to be driven from the inside out. And the first is that we're essentially dangling and we're saying, okay, here's the thing you really like, but you got to do what I want you to do first instead of, okay. Here's what we're working on as a goal for wraparound. If we're working on bi-directional communication, if we're working on expanding your MOU, I can weave in your special ed.

Into that work without needing to dangle it over here as a way to get through this work that you actually don't want to do. Um, [00:09:00] and the reason why that can be so weaving in special interests can be so beneficial. As we know a lot of our learners learn best and develop intrinsic connections and motivation when we're weaving in the things that are really meaningful for them.

So if your student loves stress, Awesome. Let's have the trains out. Let's be talking about the trains. Let's be labeling the trains. Let's be, you know, driving the trends around and talking about all of the things the trains can do. Let's be in a small group. Let's be talking to each other about the trains and Hey, can you hear me?

The blue train, there are just ways to weave in special interests into the work we're doing versus saying, okay, first you're going to do. The thing that you don't maybe really want to do top desk. Yes. You're going to do this, this work, bake this more compliant based task. And then you're going to get this when a lot of the times those students need maybe a more, a floor time play-based approach to really weave in their learning holistic.[00:10:00] 

[00:10:00] Venita Litvack: Yeah, I love that. And then ABC data, is there downsides to that as well? That I don't even know that I'm aware of it. Yeah. 

[00:10:11] Danielle Kent: ABC's for me can be really helpful if we go to the roots of what are the stressors. So sometimes what I see the antecedent behavior consequence, I see people going, okay, so the NSC was this happening, so here's what the adults need to do versus okay.

The NSA. What was the stressor for the student what's driving the dysregulation. So I think this is another one that I want to say it has a place. If we look at it from the lens of what does the student need, what does the student need? So for example, I've worked witXh a couple of young children who, um, had, you know, what was labeled as eloping behaviors, which can be really unsafe, right?

If they are running away from a parent and a parking lot. But my question then is okay. What is the driver of the dysregulation or the stressor leading to that flight? Is [00:11:00] it that the parking lot is stressful. There's too much sensory stimuli is it, they don't have the executive functioning to organize what they need to do when they get to that parking lot.

Is it, um, that the, the co the caregiver is really stressed out, so they aren't able to co-regulate, you know, what is it leading to the stressors specifically related to the antecedent that are leading to kind of some of those factors. 

[00:11:22] Venita Litvack: That makes sense versus like how do we get them to comply? Said. Okay.

I got it because I think Rachel Dorsey, when I had spoken to her, oh, her her pod course isn't out yet, but it will be coming out shameless plug, but her and I spoke and she had said that, you know, a lot of times we can't truly understand what that aniseed it was or identify what that antecedent was, especially if it's more of like internalized.

So I thought that was really interesting that she mentioned that about ABC datas. 

[00:11:53] Danielle Kent: Yes. It for me, it's always get curious. Sometimes I think, um, data that, that we really [00:12:00] like sometimes means it's just w we can just get what we need and move on. Usually it means we're not getting curious though. Usually if we're really looking at what's driving dysregulation, we're getting curious.

And sometimes it's hard for us cause we're like, what's really happening for them. And that isn't always easy to figure out as a team, including the student, what could be the driver? But it's getting curious and staying curious what's happening for them. 

[00:12:25] Venita Litvack: That makes sense. So I had a conversation with another group of SLPs in a work-related environment recently, and the topic was.

Behavior management, not the best term, but that's what it was. And some people were making the argument about there being a difference between like manipulative behaviors and dysregulated behaviors. Is there truly a difference? Is this a loaded question? Should I be asking? 

[00:12:55] Danielle Kent: Oh, you know, it, it's kind of like why behavior is, has [00:13:00] been so rooted.

So SLPs, it's not just, if you're not a parent, yet behaviorism is really rooted into society. It's deeply rooted into parenting. I'll never forget my pediatrician. When my daughter was two or three, she was like, oh, I bet she's throwing some pretty, pretty big tantrums now because that's just part of, you know, typical toddler behavior.

And so it really is deeply rooted. And I think manipulative behavior. It's one of the ways that we, as the adults take pressure off of ourselves and say, well, this is, they're just trying to do this. And that's why it's really hard and set up flipping it and saying, okay, what's driving this. Like, if you're manipulating the situation, it means some part of it is stressful for you.

You're manipulating it for a reason. There's a reason. So what's the reason what's driving that for you and remembering kids are not little adults. Our students are not adults and smaller bodies. They have differently developing brains. They have brains that are learning to connect and fire together. And what [00:14:00] we ascribe as manipulative.

Take the same perspective of if an adult was doing this versus a child doing it versus our student doing it. And so my first question is I always say, like, what, um, what makes you think that it's manipulative and what does manipulative mean to you so that we can get to the heart of that? Um, because our ability to see behaviors as dysregulation, our ability to view co-regulation as a valuable strategy in our toolbox.

Is a ref is, uh, is, uh, is drive or driven from our own co-regulation experiences as a child and from the perspectives that were shaped for us. So if our caregivers saw artists regulation as behavior, we are likely to view dysregulation as behavior and manipulative, because that's how it was framed for us from, since we were young.

I'm not a therapist. I'm not here to therapize it, but it's important to know how you view [00:15:00] dysregulation often has been formed from your childhood and beyond. 

[00:15:05] Venita Litvack: Yeah. Yeah. I think the last time we spoke, I was not. And you had made a lot of great suggestions, which I'm sure you'll talk about today. Like the whole brain child and how to talk.

So kids will listen and I've just been really enjoying both of those. And it really has changed my perspective because I grew up with like that whole, you know, the older mentality where kids aren't manipulative early on and, you know, anyway, so it's just super interesting because like I still react very quickly.

It was very hard for me to not do so. I'm trying to work on, but there's a lot more like self-reflection going on. And I said to my husband, uh, yesterday that whenever she seems to have like behaviors, my daughter, she's only 14 months. There's always a reason. And we find out later what it was like she either was over tired or her stomach hurt or she was getting a [00:16:00] cold and we just didn't know it yet.

And then when it seems like she's being manipulative, it's. It's funny because I like, she, I was like, she just loves life. Like she is just so funny and when she's eating a stick or like putting my shoe in her mouth and I react really quickly, and then she thinks it's funny, someone might say, oh, like she keeps doing it because she.

Is wanting to get my attention, but I'm like, she's just like, this is super cool. And I want to put it in my mouth. Like this is awesome. So yeah, like, I love the fact that you said they are not little adults and their brains are not developed like ours are. And I think a lot of. Our view of manipulation comes from that sense of loss of control.

And I just can't wait to hear about all of the strategies that we can use to help teach self-regulation through. 

[00:16:56] Danielle Kent: Co-regulation so good. And I w what you said reminded me that when [00:17:00] we first did the, at my very first pod, Two years ago, three years ago, I was talking about co-regulation it's really fun. You were one of the first people I talked about it with, but nobody else was talking about it then.

Like, I felt like I was in my boat, just rowing alone all along, but I'm like, I believe in this, I'm just gonna keep rowing. And it's really, really incredibly phenomenal that it's gained a lot of traction across a lot of fields. And I'm really glad that people are just curious and wanting to know more about it now.

Yeah. 

[00:17:27] Venita Litvack: Yeah, absolutely. Cause it's just gonna make for a better generation overall. So was there anything else that you want to talk about on that side before I moved on? Okay, perfect. So let's talk about the different co-regulation approaches that SLPs can use in therapy. I put shit but can use in therapy.

[00:17:46] Danielle Kent: Yeah, I like that. So one of the ways to transition from the last side is this slide is if you are somebody. Um, work with a child who is who the team is talking about. Misbehaviors Dr. Stuart Shanker and his book self rag [00:18:00] talks about reframing from misbehavior distress behavior. And that's a, and I think I talk about it later in this PowerPoint, but this is kind of a way to reframe from the get-go of why co-regulation is important, that when students are experiencing dysregulation, they're having stress behaviors.

And for, for 99.9, 900% of the kids we work with, they're experiencing stress behaviors because the kids that we work with. Our learning and regulating differently. Um, and so with those differently developing skills, it's, well-documented that they have executive function differences that they have communication differences, and all of these things are important.

Proponents of our self-regulation skills, our ability to regulators. So Miller and colleagues and the, um, study is linked in the resources at the end. Talk about three important parts of co-regulation, um, warm, responsive relationships, structuring the environment and teaching, coaching, and modeling self-regulation skills.

[00:19:00] And I kind of break these out into ways to remind us that co-regulation is responsive and proactive. It's responsive in the moment with warm, responsive relationships. When our student has left their optimal learning zone and has either gone hyper aroused or hypo aroused, and a first part of co-regulating is understanding and knowing.

What is your student's optimal level at level of regulation? What do they look like when they are optimally regulated and knowing, and defining that as a team? What does that look like for them? What, where are they what's happening for them? Because an important part of understanding dysregulation is understanding regulation for a learner.

And for some students they've experienced such little regulation that that's a place we have to start. You have to start by focusing on. When are they regulated? What do they look like? How, how is that for them and inviting our students into the [00:20:00] dialogue as able, I mean, I always say invite them in.

Sometimes our students are working on those metacognitive skills of analyzing what's happening for them. Let's starting from that regulation first perspective. So. Responsive co-regulation I provide a warm, responsive relationship. When you leave your optimal regulation zone, I presume that it's not malicious.

I presume it's not willful. A stressor is happening for you to, to make you leave that optimal learning zone or the optimally regulated zone. And my role as a caregiver, which when we're in a one-to-one session, we are the adult. We are the responsive partner for that student. To help you return back to your optimal regulation zone.

And I use the coast acronym for this C O a S T. When a student is dysregulated first and foremost. See, checking on yourself as the adult, are you regularly? The brain science behind dysregulation is that when somebody else is dysregulated, [00:21:00] you are more apt to become dysregulated. It's a biological response.

It's a response for survival. So when you said you sometimes still get triggered when your daughter gets dysregulated, that's normal, that's a normal biological response that happens the first step though, is metacognitively saying, okay, I am. Am I triggered is what's happening for me inside of my body and assessing ourselves.

See, see, are you regulated? What's happening for you? And if with a student, if their dysregulation is triggering, working on that over time, getting becoming aware of it and recognizing it, that's the first step towards becoming a co-regulation partner. There's no shame or blaming getting dysregulated.

It's all brain science, but it's knowing yourself and your risks. Oh, observe what's happening for them. I think when we are triggered by dysregulation, sometimes in a session or in school, we take it on and we think it's our fault or that we should be able to fix it. And that only furthers the dysregulation cycle.

Our job is to [00:22:00] observe what is happening for them. What is their experience, then a seek to acknowledge that experience, seek to acknowledge that experience what's happening for them. 

[00:22:12] Venita Litvack: So C knowledge, I'm just curious, like what would be an 

[00:22:15] Danielle Kent: example, knowledge and has just acknowledging what happened. So if they had to leave, um, a game and come to speech, you're just acknowledging that experience.

Like it's a bummer. You had to leave the game. 

Okay. 

[00:22:26] Venita Litvack: That's what I was wondering. Is it like internally acknowledging or you're labeling it for that? 

[00:22:30] Danielle Kent: Yeah. If they can handle language input, you can offer that simple label. If they're not there, then we kind of have that empathetic caring face and we are just nodding and we are there.

We are acknowledging their experience. Got it. I think sometimes we have a desire to separate fact from fiction or, you know, like, well, that's not really what happened or that's not what I was doing. When somebody is dysregulated, the fastest path back to regulate regulation is to feel acknowledged and heard.

And in that moment, we can just acknowledge their experience while it might not have been, [00:23:00] um, the intent of the situation. That's how they're experiencing it. Um, the crucial part of the two. When we are dysregulated, we pay most attention to somebody's face. And so if we can, too, if we can check in with, what am I doing with my face?

Um, I know it sounds like a silly thing, but when we get mad, we kinda like scrunch our eyes up. Or when we get triggered, we like scratch your eyes up. And so thinking about like relaxing our face and, you know, focusing on our heart rate and then just acknowledging what's happening for them. The S is support.

So supporting them to return back to that optimal level, using whatever plan, method, modality, the team has talked about to support them to return back. So sometimes that's, um, like lights dimmed. Um, maybe they have, like, this could be like a sensory component, late stand, or maybe they have a sock they can get into.

Maybe they prefer to listen to some music. Maybe they need a journal, whatever the plan is to support them to return back to that optimal zone. That's what happens. And then T you make a [00:24:00] note of what skills to support them, to teach in the future to teach and transition. So if it was really triggering for them to leave that game and come to the room, then we get curious, okay, what did they need?

What skills did they need? Could they have benefited from a preview, could they have benefited from a visual schedule to remind them that they were going to come to the room? You know, get curious the team about what skills could be taught so that they could develop that ability to transition with greater ease.

Um, but it's always, the T is always the last part of that. We're not teaching, we're not doing anything in the dysregulation cycle. We're just supporting them to return back to the optimal level of regulation. So that's responsive. Co-regulate. Other phases are proactive co-regulation and that includes structuring the.

And the favorite teaching, coaching and modeling self-regulation skills. So structuring the environment, weans, we are structuring the environment in ways that [00:25:00] wholly support the child. So that's considering the sensory needs of the space we're in, that's considering visual schedules where maybe we're implementing that's considering any modalities to support them, to be their most successful.

For parents. I say, this means we're creating boundaries of safety in the home. Like we're creating boundaries of here's when we go to bed. Here's when we wake up, here's when your mealtimes are expected, it's creating routines essentially, because that's what helps build predictability and stability for kids and their relationships.

So structuring the. And then the last part is teaching coaching and modeling self-regulation skills. So some students develop skills more independently and on a faster track than other brains. There's no best way to develop self-regulation skills, but sometimes our learners who have differently developing skills need extra time to practice, to watch, to practice with the development of those skills.[00:26:00] 

Um, and I mostly focus in, in this area for self-regulation skills. I talk a lot about planning and prioritization, the skills needed to plan and prioritize the ability to have flexibility, which I'll talk about in just a minute. I'm sure you all have a follow up question and then the ability to start gauging your energy regulation, whereas your energy.

There's lots of other skills involved that I often go into deep with teams and parents, but those three are kind of the three that jump out to people right away, women, they see dysregulation for what are the drivers of dysregulation. So as a, as just one more visual for people to think about, if they're still like, what is co-regulation it's regulating with?

So, instead of saying, you need to regulate yourself, it's saying I'm here to regulate with you. And we do that through responsive and proactive means. And think about the infant who is completely on unable to regulate themselves. They are completely [00:27:00] dependent on a caregiver to feed them, change them, swaddle them, give them a bath all the way up to that 18 year old, who is entering into the new phase of life.

Over time, the responsibility is handed over to them to regulate themselves with greater ease, but co-regulation is there that whole time it's even present beyond that. There's a gradual handoff that gradual release of responsibility, and that looks different for every student. Some students need longer co-regulation periods to develop self-regulation and there's nothing bad about that, but it's important to honor where every student is at in terms of their needs for COVID.

[00:27:41] Venita Litvack: This was it's so funny because you and I, like you said, we had talked about this. Uh, a few times over the past couple of years. And when you first presented it to me, I'm like, Danielle, what are you talking about? You're so smart, but this makes no sense to me. And I don't know if it's just like the more exposure I've had or the more information that's being [00:28:00] shared out there, but it makes so much more sense now.

And. What you're saying about co-regulation I had this like, huge realization. I don't know if you brought it up or somebody else did it. I think you first brought up the point that kids are not able to self-regulate until much, much, much later. And then I think I learned recently that there was like four stages of.

You know, growing up as a child and it, it actually doesn't end until age 24 and then, you know, there's more growing beyond that, but that was very interesting for me. And then I had this realization that I don't think we ever truly learn to. Self-regulate. Why do you think people go to therapy? They're co-regulating and I was like, that just blew my mind because if we're expecting children to learn self regulation skills without teaching them how to co-regulate first it's obviously.

The right way to go. So yeah, it's just very, very 

[00:28:58] Danielle Kent: interesting. And [00:29:00] in healthy, like the thing that I always think in, in, it sounds like you're spot on with this co-regulation is lifelong. It's just the relationship shifts. So it goes from parent to child or, or, or child to caregiver. And then as a child gets older, they start to co-regulate with peers and then as they get even older, they co-regulate with a partner or a, or a friend network.

So in. Developing brains co-regulation never ends. This is how we shift away from, you know, maybe, maybe more unhealthy methods of regulating selves. If we learn, if we tell people you can rely on other people, you can create connections, you can regulate with you develop healthy patterns with the people around you.

[00:29:41] Venita Litvack: Yeah. And I, I mean, I'm learning all about like harboring feelings, not talking about your feelings and how much more damage that can do. Whereas if we say it's okay to co-regulate at any age, then like that dialogue would lead to, I think, a lot healthier relationships, like you're saying with yourself and with others.[00:30:00] 

[00:30:00] Danielle Kent: Yes, exactly. Exactly. 

[00:30:03] Venita Litvack: Wonderful. Well, I think this was super helpful to give people some ideas on how they can use co-regulation in therapy. Is there anything else that you wanted to talk about here or should we move on? 

[00:30:15] Danielle Kent: I think that's it. If something pops back up, I'll loop it back in. 

[00:30:18] Venita Litvack: Okay. Perfect. All right.

So let's talk about the connection between co-regulation and self-regulation a little bit. Yeah. 

[00:30:26] Danielle Kent: So as I, I mentioned in the last slide, the co-regulation, um, the, in the linked article, they did kind of a graph of showing how the co-regulation handoff, that gradual release of responsibility from the adult who is doing all the co all the, all the regulating, how it shifts gradually as the child gets older, you know, time is on this way.

The adult responsibility starts off here and then it shifts here and then it shifts here and then it just gets more child directed as time goes on. Okay. At the end, they're still aligned where, you know, you're still [00:31:00] hopefully have that relationship between child and caregiver that they feel they're able to still connect and reach out when they're experiencing periods of dysregulation.

But our ability to regulate ourselves, which is, you know, connecting the dots between our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. Happens as a result of the co-regulation that we experienced, um, from a young age on, and it's not saying that let's say birth to five, a child had really intermittent periods of co-regulation forever, for any reason, uh, they can't develop the ability to regulate.

That's not true, but it just means we need to focus a lot on co-regulation with them and change the narrative from, they need to learn to regulate to they need practice regular. Safely with somebody else to develop those skills, to be able to regulate themselves. And so co-regulation is life long misses, like.

For me, this is kinda like the same dialogue between self care. And co-care like, we yell at people to take care of yourself, self care, when [00:32:00] really we need more co-care we need people to be able to have networks so that they can take care of themselves, especially, you know, this is really geared towards parents, but I think all the time about SLPs who are told to take care of themselves, but don't have.

Systems in place to do so. Right. We need better code care. We need, we need community care. We need greater systems of support from top-down, but I love that. But co-regulation is hopefully lifelong. You know, we have a gradual release of responsibility to the child as they develop independence. And it's that really, that, that gradual release.

So I show you, you watch, I show you, you helped me. You show me I help you. And then you show me, I watch, we worked through those four steps for these skills, for students who are experiencing maybe differently developing executive function skills that gradually. Um, other so, so self-regulation for me is those four parts.

Co-regulation our executive function skills, our [00:33:00] sensory processing skills and our communication skills. If we're experiencing dysregulation likely one or more of these areas is differently developing and can benefit from some support. So those are when I do workshops talking about self-regulation, I have.

Those four skills in a kind of interconnected bubble for how self-regulation develops.

[00:33:27] Venita Litvack: Awesome. Um, can you. Give an like, just a very brief or maybe however long you want to talk about it. What is self like actually entails? So people can get an idea of like how realistic it is for a child to do this by themselves. Because I know we're writing a lot of the times people are writing goals for self-regulation and not co-regulation.

And that's probably another topic is like, how do you write goals for co-regulation? We'll talk about that. If we have some time today or maybe somebody will bring it up in the Q and a, but [00:34:00] I'm curious, like again, can you just re re refresh our minds on like what self-regulation actually entail? 

[00:34:06] Danielle Kent: Yeah. So self-regulation, I usually, so there's a couple of layers to this, so I'll try and break them all down.

So if the question usually is they're experiencing dysregulation, so then we say, okay, what are the stressors that are driving dysregulation? And we look at those, those, those four bubbles. Executive function skills, sensory processing, communication, co-regulation experiences. You know what, in which of those bubbles are all those bubbles, are they experiencing stressors and where do they need teaching?

So if it's, um, sensors. Processing. Okay. Let's get a skilled OT involved. Let's look at what are the triggers and let's teach advocacy and communication around how they can advocate for what they need in a variety of situations. If it's executive functions. Great. Let's get an executive function profile and let's understand specifically which skills could benefit from concrete [00:35:00] teaching or holistically.

Give them executive function instruction. There's there's a plethora of options for really high value executive function instruction. If it's communication skills. Great. Let's tie in how the different modalities of communicating. If it's co-regulation experiences, if they're early co-regulation was impacted by trauma.

Okay. Let's focus a lot on reciprocal, dyadic interactions, where we're playing and engaging each with each other to create systems of safety for this learner. Okay. It starts with understanding specifically what self-regulation skills are they working on and making a plan to teach around those skills?

Because one thing I always struggle with is if we're creating self-regulation goals, what is the plan to teach those skills, you know, and, and for a variety of reasons and really good, valid reasons, time, resources, um, people I will. [00:36:00] Um, read of goals for a student to regulate themselves, but the student is there's no active plan for the student to get, to explore their own dysregulation, to learn about their Blaine brain, to explore their sensory profile, to practice a regulation plan when regulated to get, to identify their stressors.

I mean, it's not as easy as saying here, regulate your. And only pulling out a plan when they're dysregulated, because then there's no wiring there for them to learn to understand themselves. Um, we aren't creating that feedback loop for them of learning about themselves, learning to practice a plan and then creating and securing that network across time.

[00:36:42] Venita Litvack: So I think maybe the executive functioning, well, there is a course that you and I did together, so I'll just mention it really quick. Stop Cobra. I can wait and listen. And that one talked a lot, or I think we did more of a deep dive into executive function skills and executive function teaching. But I feel like maybe that is probably the least [00:37:00] understood in the four that you just mentioned.

So can you. Go over some examples of like executive function teaching. 

[00:37:08] Danielle Kent: Yeah. So just kind of backing up for a second executive function skills are those skills that support us to act in a focused, flexible goal directed way. And, um, goals are many things we do across our day, anywhere from, you know, playing with a toy to, you know, getting to class on time.

Anything that's got an objective. Is, uh, is involved with a goal directed behavior and we open and close loops all day long. And we asked kids to open and close, so many loops in school. They have to get to school, they have to hang up their stuff. They have to get out of the circle from morning meeting.

And I mean, all day long, it's like open, close, open, close, open. And for kids who are differently developing in those executive function skills, which, uh, involves like planning and prioritization organization, flexibility, metacognition, working memory, stand attention. There's [00:38:00] 33 clusters of skills that Dr.

George McCloskey talks about involved in executive function that support us on a day-to-day basis. But those are the ones we most often hear about. So if you have a differently developing executive function profile, the traditional school setting. We'll likely be a challenge for you because of the excessive demands and the opening and closing of loops that happen all day long in demanding of your attention and time.

Um, and I think SLP it's been so exciting. SLPs are so curious about executive function skills now. And, um, that's been so great to see that. That people are curious now in thinking about how exec executive function skills can also be drivers of dysregulation. Um, so my best example is, um, I was working with a teen who was 17 and he.

Was having a really hard time getting us work in on time. And I said, well, what's happening for you? And he said, [00:39:00] I think I'm just lazy. I was like, really tell me why. And it was just kind of repeated patterns across time for him, but I broke it down for him. And I said, with your brain, with an ADHD brain specifically, The ability to plan and, and be aware of time looks different for you.

And so when you go to do something it's harder sometimes for your brain to make a plan and to see how long it's actually going to take you. So you, your brain might want to avoid it. Your brain might not want to do it. So you procrastinated until the last minute, and then you might not have enough time.

And so this is why, you know, I loop back to like teaching kids about their brains, so they don't develop. You know, incorrect perceptions about it, but knowing your skills, knowing how your brain operates, knowing how you open and close loops, which are those executive function skills as an invaluable part of knowing yourself, knowing your students, but it's an incredibly important part of that.

Self-regulation cluster of skills, how you manage yourself on a day-to-day basis involves all of [00:40:00] my executive function skills. 

[00:40:03] Venita Litvack: Wonderful. I love that example. Thank you for sharing that. And I think it was just so much more powerful to remove that label from him and show him what his strengths are, but also giving him a clear understanding of how his brain works and how he can use that to his advantage.

I think whenever we get. Something going on, whether we're looking for a medical diagnosis for symptoms that have been occurring, it just is such a relief, right. To know why those are happening. So I think that's really powerful that you were able to teach him that and that you, you know, frequently do that with your clients.

And I think that'd be really helpful for anybody who's listening to. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. All right. Anything else you want to talk about here before we move? I 

[00:40:49] Danielle Kent: don't think so. Okay, perfect. 

[00:40:52] Venita Litvack: So how can sob spot the difference between behaviors and dysregulation? And maybe I jumped, jumped ahead too [00:41:00] much by asking a similar type of question before, but I think there's a lot more to go over here.

So I'm excited to hear 

[00:41:06] Danielle Kent: absolutely. So I think I I'm going to work. I think actually. Bottom up on this page, I'm zigzagging a little bit. So a lot of people will say like, behaviors, communication. I like to say I, I flipped the script. I say all dysregulation is information. Um, it's information for us to have it's information that we can use.

And I think when we say that, when we say that dysregulation is information, it's reminding us that it's information about. The student for what's happening for them. I want to keep coming back to that is what's happening for them. Um, that can really help us remember that they are having our students are having an experience and instead of guessing, or labeling, we can seek to understand what that experience is.

I would say if something is a one-timer, maybe you could call it a behavior. I don't even then, even then I don't [00:42:00] then B behaviors, usually a repeated loops of things that happen. And those are stress behaviors for me, those are dysregulation as evidenced by stress behaviors. Um, and I think. I often will say to teams who are talking about behaviors, I'll say, what does that term behaviors mean to you?

Like, what are behaviors? Uh, what does that mean? And can we use dysregulation instead? Um, because I think it's important that in our own minds we're clear on like, what does that word behavior mean to us? I feel like we, we use it on. Um, but what does that actually mean? And then saying, okay, can we reframe that to being a stress behavior so that we can say this could be stressful for our students and then let's teach and support those self-regulation skills.

It doesn't mean that we're not holding boundaries in place. It doesn't mean that. Uh, holding, you know, limits in place. It just means we're saying what's happening for them and how [00:43:00] can we support them to return to their optimal zone and then teach the skills that they need to be successful across time?

Um, yeah, sometimes it does mean that we relinquish. Control of the situation, but then I say, what does control mean to you? Does it mean that they are completely compliant and then it's compliance the ultimate goal? Or do we want to really support kids to become autonomous, joyous, independent communicators?

And I think as SLPs. Those are some of the real big outcomes for our students. That's for sure. I know what I hope for when I work with students is that they develop a greater ability for autonomy and joyous communication and independence and interdependence. Being able to work in connect with the peers around them.

Those are some of the most important components that I feel of the workweek. Um, and then everyone knows Ross Green's kids do well if they can. So if you can really hold onto that, if you can really hold on to that and know [00:44:00] that w we're always presuming competence, we're always presuming the best effort is already there.

And if they're struggling, then what's happening for them. Presumably with their best effort, is there what's happening for them if dysregulation is there?

[00:44:18] Venita Litvack: Yeah. I love that. That's a book kids do well, if they can, or is it a program? 

[00:44:24] Danielle Kent: Ross green is the author. He's written several books like the explosive child and lost at school and, um, just phenomenal books. And that, that quote though is from him. And he's got, there's a great YouTube link. If you, if you type that into YouTube, it's, it's a great quick YouTube clip you can watch and it makes you go.

Yup. Yup. 

[00:44:45] Venita Litvack: That's awesome. Oh, wow. This has been super, super helpful. Um, I just want to make sure that. Everything is a very clear before we [00:45:00] wrap up today. So can we talk a little bit more about reframing misbehaviors as stress behaviors? Is there a framework or is it just like reframing the way we look at these type 

[00:45:12] Danielle Kent: of behaviors reframing the way we look at the behavior?

So misbehavior that term misbehavior, isn't it implies that a student is willfully. Acting against what an adult is often asking. They are willfully choosing to not follow what's happening. If we put that word stress behaviors as Dr. Stuart Shanker talks about, for me, that's a reminder for the adult that something is happening for our students and knowing we work with a lot of neurodivergent learners.

We work with a lot of students who regulate differently. I've yet to work with a student who was willfully, not following directions without there being a driver behind it with other, being a driver behind it. And I know that dysregulation and, um, difficulties and following [00:46:00] directions. I know it can be a real challenge sometimes externally, but staying curious, staying the course and really just going back to that question of what's happening for them is a reminder for all of us.

Our kids have a lot going on under the surface. Um, and I did want to share if I get share one more resource. Yeah. When Dr. Mona Della hook, who wrote beyond behaviors, she has a flip chart that she just put out that I carry in my tool bag and it has an iceberg. Um, and I don't want to show it too much. Um, cause I think it's a resource, but, um, it's a developmental iceberg and it's just showing like what we see at the.

The tip of the iceberg is the observable behavior. And then under the surfaces, all what's, what's going on for them, what's happening under the surface of the iceberg for them. And that just gets everybody stepping back and saying, okay, so instead of this being like a willful misbehavior where they're choosing not to engage or choosing not to follow what else is happening [00:47:00] for them.

And that makes all the difference, because I always say to people. When you're experiencing dysregulation, when you're experiencing frustration, anger, whatever it is, whatever dysregulation looks like for you. Is it helpful for somebody to tell you to stop acting a certain way or to label your feelings for you or to, you know, like traditional approaches we use for kids who are experiencing dysregulation?

No in front for, I know for me, some of those things could be further triggering for me. So think about you as the adult, what works actually for you as support and remember our kids, they're not little adults, but they are humans who need the same level of attunement. And co-regulation ongoing to really support their development of self and risk.

Yeah. 

[00:47:51] Venita Litvack: Yeah. Yeah. I'd love that. Thanks for sharing that resource. I'm a big fan of any of those icebergs. They have them for like AAC [00:48:00] and, you know, just early intervention, like learning how to communicate, but it is so interesting to picture. Okay. What else is going on in this situation? Awesome. And so these are all of the references that you've included.

This will be included in the handout for anybody who chose to get a certificate or Asher processing, a handout will be provided. And Danielle, if anybody is not familiar with you guys, this is maybe the first time they are watching you speak. Where should everybody find and connect with you besides Instagram?

Or is that the best place? 

[00:48:40] Danielle Kent: The best place to go. I also have a website, Danielle Kent, my just my name.com. Those are two great ways to reach me. Awesome. 

[00:48:48] Venita Litvack: Thank you so much. This has been incredible, and I have a whole new understanding now of co-regulation and I'm so glad that it's [00:49:00] becoming more prominent in our field as well.

So I will turn this over to the Q and A chat. Now that way we can address any questions that. Awesome. Thanks again.